Prop 8 in CA and Prop 102 in AZ

Now, I know this has been in the news a lot lately, but I wanted everyone to maybe put down there thoughts and ideas regarding the marriage amendment.

Here are some of my thoughts:

1) I understand that the church is kind of secretive about supporting the bills. They have their tax exempt status to keep. I am an accountant - I understand the tax laws and what needs to be kept in place for this benefit to remain. The church will do everything necessary to keep that. It saves the church hundreds of millions per year. This is a no brainer. Be smart with the Lord's money.

That being said - I don't understand how members can say or think "How dare the church tell me how to vote or get involved in politics!" I personally think such a statement is ignorant and foolish. Obviously they dont understand the history of the church and gospel. Have they ever read the Old Testament? Have they read Church History? Of course the church should get involved. The gospel is everything to us. It is our lives. Depending on how we live here determines how we will live in eternity. This is the Lord's kingdom. He can tell us whatever he wants. There is nothing that he is exempt from. He knows best. We should put our trust in him, and follow him in everything that he tells us. The phrase everything's politics should be rephrased to everything's spiritual.

2) The church did not donate money to this cause. The sacred tithing funds or fast offering or other funds were NOT used (at least to my knowledge and please correct me if I am wrong.) The church strongly encouraged it's members to support the bill through monetary donations. I dont think that there was any punishment if someone did not support the bill. They could still take the sacrament and go to the temple. This is fine. Members can spend their money how they want. That is their decision. The church should encourage worthy objectives.

3) As sad as it is, I think this will eventually be overturned and it is only a matter of time before homosexual marriages are legal. I think we fought a good fight and should continue to fight, but it is ok where this ends up because the world knows where we stand and we have been a light set up on a hill.

4) We hate the sin but love the sinner. This is hard to do. I have a hard time separating this. I personally think that defining marriage is strictly a political move. It is only for the Government. It will always be wrong to the church. But once the Government accepts it, it will be hard for the church to speak up against it. Right now the church is against immorality. We are against people living together and having sex if they are not married. We can say this and it currently encompases both sides. But once homosexuals are legally able to get married, we need to speak against immorality but also against this marriage union. It just gets messier. There should be no difference in our mind right now that whether 2 men or a man/woman living together is a major sin against the law of Chastity. The sin is the same.

5) As far as I can tell, the main consequence of this is teaching homosexual marriages equal to marriage between a man and woman. Once this is recognized as main stream - we are ripe for destruction - just like Soddom and Gomhorrah.

6) The news is so liberal and biased. The media is horrible. But, I think all this attention is good. Those conservative with traditional values will see the church as a good thing. We need some persecution. The church has been too comfortable for too long. If Satan and wickedness is not fighting hard against us, we are probably doing something wrong anyway.

Any thoughts? Thanks for reading my rantings and ravings.

Joseph B. Wirthlin

I am really sad to see Elder Wirthlin pass on. I think it is good for him since his cousin Gordon B Hinckley passed on a few years ago and so did his life. Although he has kids, I think it would be lonely without his wife. But he sure gave amazing talks! I loved it when he got up to speak because his talks always move me the most. He was the most amazing man, and although I never met him personally, he was my hero. I could listen to him talk forever. You will be dearly missed.

Here is a little biography from Grandpa Bill's General Authority website. I love this website because it has the Bio of every GA in the history of the church.

http://gapages.com/

Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin was ordained an Apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 9, 1986. He was sustained and set apart as an Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles on 4 April 1975 and served in that capacity until he was called to the First Quorum of the Seventy in April 1976. He was set apart in the Presidency of the First Quorum of the Seventy on August 28,1986, where he was serving when called to be an Apostle in October of 1986.

Elder Wirthlin was born in Salt Lake City to Joseph L. Wirthlin and Madeline Bitner Wirthlin. His father served as the Presiding Bishop of the Church.

Elder Wirthlin graduated from the University of Utah in business administration. He is an Eagle Scout. He was active in athletics in high school and played football at the University of Utah.

Before his call as a General Authority, he was a prominent business leader in Salt Lake City. He was also president of a trade association in Utah.

Elder Wirthlin served a mission in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland in the late 1930s. He served in stake and ward auxiliary positions, as a counselor in the Bonneville Ward bishopric for seven years, and as bishop of the same ward for nearly 10 years. He was a member of the Bonneville Stake high council and then served as a member of the stake presidency until he was called, on June 27, 1971, to be first counselor in the Sunday School general presidency. He served there until April 1975, when he was called as an Assistant to the Twelve.

Elder Wirthlin served as General Authority area supervisor for the Europe Area from July 1975 to April 1978 and executive administrator for the Southeast Area of the United States and the Caribbean Islands from 1978–1982. He then served as the executive administrator for Brazil from 1 July 1982–1984. He was the managing director of the Melchizedek Priesthood Committee, the Relief Society, and the Military Relations Committee from 1978–1984.

From July 1984 to August 1986 Elder Wirthlin served as President of the Europe Area of the Church, directing Church affairs in Continental Europe, the British Isles, Ireland, and Africa. From August 1986 until his call to the Quorum of the Twelve, he served as a member of the Presidency of the First Quorum of the Seventy, executive director of the Curriculum Department, and editor of Church magazines. He is presently serving as a member of the Missionary Executive Council, the General Welfare Services Committee, the Church Board of Education and Boards of Trustees, the Leadership Training Committee, and First Contact of the Quorum of the Twelve for the Australia/New Zealand, Asia, Asia North, Pacific, and Philippines Areas.

He married Elisa Young Rogers on May 26, 1941 in the Salt Lake Temple. They are the parents of eight children and forty-six grandchildren.

Elisa Young Rogers Wirthlin, wife of Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, passed away on August 16, 2006, of causes incident to age. Elder Wirthlin commented on his eternal companion in the Saturday afternoon session of October 2006 General Conference “She was my strength and my joy. Because of her, I am a better man, husband, and father. … I owe more to my wife than I can possibly express. I don’t know if there ever was a perfect marriage, but, from my perspective, I think ours was. … As Elisa was my greatest joy, now her passing is my greatest sorrow.”

Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin, the oldest living apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, died Monday night December 1, 2008, age 91.

Elder Wirthlin had gone to bed at his Salt Lake City home, and died peacefully at about 11:30 pm of causes incident to age. His oldest daughter, Jane Wirthlin Parker, was present. A member of the family had been staying and caring for Elder Wirthlin, whose wife, Elisa Young Rogers Wirthlin, died in 2006.

He had continued to work at his office right up until the Thanksgiving holiday.

Funeral services were held at noon on Friday, December 5, at the Tabernacle on Temple Square.

Questions about Pre-Earth Life...

How do dinosaurs fit into the picture?
Did they live on the earth?
Did they live after Adam/Eve?
How come the earth is billions of years old but from Adam it is only 6,000 years?
How could Adam/Seth/ other Biblical people live to be 900 years old? Does that make sense?

Well, here is my understanding and postulation. These are only my thoughts.

There was no death before the Fall of Adam because the world and Adam and Eve were in Terrestrial world. Adam has a belly button because HF and HM had him and Eve - they are his literal and physical descendants. Sorry - I don't believe that evolution led to mankind. Also, I believe there are animals in heaven, in a perfect form who had the animals in the Garden.

I think the Garden was in a different place than where our earth is now. It was closer to God/Kolob. The fall is actually just the Garden moving away from God and onto the earth where we are now.

This earth is billions of years old. There was evolution here, wild animals, and yes, even the dinosaurs. But, 6,000 years ago, Adam and Eve came and began inhabiting the world. The rest is history and we know the story.

Thoughts?

This life is about people

I was thinking today about the final judgment, and what it would be like. I have heard people say that you will watch a movie of your life. I personally doubt that. I imagine a gathering, where you stand before Heavenly Father, and people come and talk about you. They say what good or ill things that you did to them.

I think that the whole purpose in this life is about how we interact and treat others. I personally think that is why life is unfair, and why bad things happen to good people. Life is tough. I think that is the test, what are we doing to help alleviate the pains of others. Do we truly love others? Do we care more about their well-being than our own?

I was thinking how difficult it would be to be Heavenly Father. He is perfect. He loves every one of his children. That baffles me as I walk the streets of New York. How do you keep that kind of perspective? This life is about people ... that is the test.

New Thornock Doctrine Blog

I have created a new blog that is the place where we can write down ideas, thoughts, doctrinal questions, political insights, etc.

I hope you all enjoy, and come here often to provide a different perspective and insight into the fascinating topic at the time.