Why do we have common consent in the church?
1) The Lord's Kingdom is a theocracy, not a democracy. There is 1 King, and if you don't agree or like the terms, you are literally kicked out.
2) If we oppose someone being appointed to a calling, will anything change? Will the person not be put in?
3) If the person is not worthy, why did the Lord inspire and confirm the calling to the Bishop/Church leader anyway?
4) If it is more just to say I support, then why even ask for a dissenting opinion? If I dissent, does that mean I do not need to support?
Saturday, May 30, 2009
Thursday, May 7, 2009
Mom, I'm hungry. No, you're fasting.
While we're concerned about The Letter vs The Spirit, does that play into Fasting? I'm not talking about a sip of water or even chewing gum or breath mint, but rather the duration of the fast. We're told "2 meals" which some have interpreted and preached "24 hours". How concerned is God over the time limit, that we go the distance?
Let's say you just completed hour 23 of your 24-hour fast. Your wife is making salsa for dinner and asks you to try it. Do you say, I'll need to wait 1 more hour? Do you run into the other room, pray and break your fast and return to sample said salsa? Or do you just try it on 1 chip while your kids gasp that you just ruined your fast? (I did option "C" BTW) So, did I blow it and that's why I didn't receive the extra spiritual strength to reject Krispy Kreme doughnuts this week?
Is God a stickler or not? If He didn't mean 2-meals or 24-hours, then why did He say it? Tithing is pretty much 10%, not 9.5% nor 12%. 10% will get you into the temple while 8% or 9% will not. Sounds pretty Letter of the Law to me.
The Word of Wisdom says No Tea, No Coffee, No Tobacco; as proper Letter of the Law laws should. But it also has a bunch of other stuff, eat healthily and take care of your body that we skim over. So, maybe the WoW is more Spirit of the Law? Hunh?
When one receives the Aaronic Priesthood, the bishop asks them, Will you try to live these laws? When one receives the Melchizedek Priesthood, the bishop asks them, Do you live these laws? Maybe there is a pattern there of increasing sanctification. It's almost like the law (or letter of the law) is to get us started in the way with the hope and expectation that the spirit will take root and become the teacher and motivator. (Sounds like a scripture)
In the middle of one's fast, one partakes of the sacrament. Technically one has broken one's fast because one partook of bread and water violating the whole "no food nor water" part. But that's silly because renewing one's baptismal covenant is of greater importance, and probably doesn't nullify one's fast. But, still, I'm just saying, technically....
So, are we saying it's possible for someone with a medical condition to maybe fast 12-hours and gain just as much, if not more, spirituality and self-control over the body than someone from a 24-hour fast?
Let's say you just completed hour 23 of your 24-hour fast. Your wife is making salsa for dinner and asks you to try it. Do you say, I'll need to wait 1 more hour? Do you run into the other room, pray and break your fast and return to sample said salsa? Or do you just try it on 1 chip while your kids gasp that you just ruined your fast? (I did option "C" BTW) So, did I blow it and that's why I didn't receive the extra spiritual strength to reject Krispy Kreme doughnuts this week?
Is God a stickler or not? If He didn't mean 2-meals or 24-hours, then why did He say it? Tithing is pretty much 10%, not 9.5% nor 12%. 10% will get you into the temple while 8% or 9% will not. Sounds pretty Letter of the Law to me.
The Word of Wisdom says No Tea, No Coffee, No Tobacco; as proper Letter of the Law laws should. But it also has a bunch of other stuff, eat healthily and take care of your body that we skim over. So, maybe the WoW is more Spirit of the Law? Hunh?
When one receives the Aaronic Priesthood, the bishop asks them, Will you try to live these laws? When one receives the Melchizedek Priesthood, the bishop asks them, Do you live these laws? Maybe there is a pattern there of increasing sanctification. It's almost like the law (or letter of the law) is to get us started in the way with the hope and expectation that the spirit will take root and become the teacher and motivator. (Sounds like a scripture)
In the middle of one's fast, one partakes of the sacrament. Technically one has broken one's fast because one partook of bread and water violating the whole "no food nor water" part. But that's silly because renewing one's baptismal covenant is of greater importance, and probably doesn't nullify one's fast. But, still, I'm just saying, technically....
So, are we saying it's possible for someone with a medical condition to maybe fast 12-hours and gain just as much, if not more, spirituality and self-control over the body than someone from a 24-hour fast?
Sunday, May 3, 2009
Almost Heaven, West Virgina
The late, great, John Denver once sang, "Almost Heaven, West Virginia." So that begs the question:
What will heaven (Celestial Kingdom) be like? What do you imagine? Will it be fun? How much laughter constitutes loud laughter?
Appreciate your thoughts....
What will heaven (Celestial Kingdom) be like? What do you imagine? Will it be fun? How much laughter constitutes loud laughter?
Appreciate your thoughts....
Saturday, May 2, 2009
YM Question
So one of my young men, Gabe (the 15 year old from Brazil), asked on Sunday, who is Heavenly Father's Father? How do you answer?
Not to belabor the Point...
But I will. I really like Rick's and Brian's and Rob's comments. They are deep, thorough, and provide excellent perspective. A couple of thoughts I had.
1) Although I agree that a steady cash flow every month from tithe payers is much better than one lump sum, I do not think that paying all at once is really that difficult. The church has so much money (roughly $12 Billion per year in Tithes/Offerings), that they know how to manage their cash flow. 1 person's lump sum is insignificant on the overall tithes (unless the last name is Huntsman or Marriott). Even so, with the church's emphasis on being smart with your money, I doubt this would cause concern.
2) By the way, does anyone know who comprises the church auditing committee? I think I am going to call and find out.
3) On one of the posts, someone mentioned dying prior to paying the 4 months worth of tithing. But just because it is not paid, does that really make one not a full-tithe payer? Let's say that you get paid on Friday (and normally pay tithing the Sunday after the paycheck comes in), but catch the flu and cannot make it church. Instead of mailing it to the Bishop, you simply wait until Sunday to pay? So are you for the week not worthy to enter the temple? I dont think the Lord is an accountant (sorry Rob). Do you think he is really counting to the penny? Does he really care? Isnt it more about where your heart is anyway?
4) I agree - just wait until the money is ready to write the tithing check. Do you really need to past-date it? But then again, do you only receive the blessings after you pay? I dont think so. The next question to this reasoning would be: how long does your tithing check qualify you for blessings? If you only pay 1x per month, are you only good for 2 of the 4 weeks for blessings? Are you covered until the next paycheck comes? This just seems too Pharisaical to me. I lean way too much on the spirit of the law.
5) Do you get more blessings if you pay 15% tithing?
The overall message is this: tithing is a preparatory law. Let's not get caught up in all the nitty gritty. Do your best, and then leave the rest to the Lord. He does not even need your money anway. And in actuality, anyone who has gone through the temple should live the law of consecration. We should be willing to give all, not just 10% (or 5% after Rob's all tax loopholes). Tithing is the lesser law. Why are we splitting hairs on this? Where is your heart - that is what God wants anyway. Is our wealth and money getting in the way? Are we camels trying to go through the eye of the needle?
1) Although I agree that a steady cash flow every month from tithe payers is much better than one lump sum, I do not think that paying all at once is really that difficult. The church has so much money (roughly $12 Billion per year in Tithes/Offerings), that they know how to manage their cash flow. 1 person's lump sum is insignificant on the overall tithes (unless the last name is Huntsman or Marriott). Even so, with the church's emphasis on being smart with your money, I doubt this would cause concern.
2) By the way, does anyone know who comprises the church auditing committee? I think I am going to call and find out.
3) On one of the posts, someone mentioned dying prior to paying the 4 months worth of tithing. But just because it is not paid, does that really make one not a full-tithe payer? Let's say that you get paid on Friday (and normally pay tithing the Sunday after the paycheck comes in), but catch the flu and cannot make it church. Instead of mailing it to the Bishop, you simply wait until Sunday to pay? So are you for the week not worthy to enter the temple? I dont think the Lord is an accountant (sorry Rob). Do you think he is really counting to the penny? Does he really care? Isnt it more about where your heart is anyway?
4) I agree - just wait until the money is ready to write the tithing check. Do you really need to past-date it? But then again, do you only receive the blessings after you pay? I dont think so. The next question to this reasoning would be: how long does your tithing check qualify you for blessings? If you only pay 1x per month, are you only good for 2 of the 4 weeks for blessings? Are you covered until the next paycheck comes? This just seems too Pharisaical to me. I lean way too much on the spirit of the law.
5) Do you get more blessings if you pay 15% tithing?
The overall message is this: tithing is a preparatory law. Let's not get caught up in all the nitty gritty. Do your best, and then leave the rest to the Lord. He does not even need your money anway. And in actuality, anyone who has gone through the temple should live the law of consecration. We should be willing to give all, not just 10% (or 5% after Rob's all tax loopholes). Tithing is the lesser law. Why are we splitting hairs on this? Where is your heart - that is what God wants anyway. Is our wealth and money getting in the way? Are we camels trying to go through the eye of the needle?
Tithing Complexities
As I sat in Sunday School last Sunday, a comment was made about General Conference and church meetings how most of them are of the basic and simple church topics like Faith and Repentance. I thought to myself, those are the easy topics? I dont even understand them. There is so much to them and I can always learn more.
Another complex issue is tithing. As a primary child, they say, if you make 10 pennies, you pay 1 to the church and you keep 9. Although simple on the surface, it is a little more complex.
There is the obvious issue of net vs. gross. But if you probe a little deeper, here are some questions.
1) If I participate in my company's 401K matching program, do I need to pay tithing on what my company contributes?
2) Once I am retired, do I need to pay tithing? What if I only live off of what I contributed?
3) What if I own my own company receive many benefits from it: I have a company car, they pay for my computer, gas, trips, vacations, etc? Do I need to pay on their health care coverage? (I recently went to the dentist and the bill was $400, and I only had to pay $67).
4) If I buy a house for $100K and sell it for $200K (obviously not a realistic current example), but do I need to pay tithing on the $100K increase?
There are more, but I will save the agony. That one simple word "annual increase" is actually pretty complex. It is not only cash, property, things, cant it also be considered a cancellation of debt or obligation? If I file for bankruptcy and have $100K in debt relieved, is that an increase?
Thoughts?
Another complex issue is tithing. As a primary child, they say, if you make 10 pennies, you pay 1 to the church and you keep 9. Although simple on the surface, it is a little more complex.
There is the obvious issue of net vs. gross. But if you probe a little deeper, here are some questions.
1) If I participate in my company's 401K matching program, do I need to pay tithing on what my company contributes?
2) Once I am retired, do I need to pay tithing? What if I only live off of what I contributed?
3) What if I own my own company receive many benefits from it: I have a company car, they pay for my computer, gas, trips, vacations, etc? Do I need to pay on their health care coverage? (I recently went to the dentist and the bill was $400, and I only had to pay $67).
4) If I buy a house for $100K and sell it for $200K (obviously not a realistic current example), but do I need to pay tithing on the $100K increase?
There are more, but I will save the agony. That one simple word "annual increase" is actually pretty complex. It is not only cash, property, things, cant it also be considered a cancellation of debt or obligation? If I file for bankruptcy and have $100K in debt relieved, is that an increase?
Thoughts?
Math Problem
I just want to let you all know that it is mathematically possible for 5% = 10% when tithing is concerned. Maybe for my GFTH I can share a lesson I learned in a BYU tax class how you can get your net tithing % down to 5% while still paying a full 10% of your gross. Really cool stuff.
Hint: Use the tax laws in your favor, by itemizing your charitable contribution to reduce your tax liability. Additionally, instead of paying your tithing in cash, try donating appeciated art, stock, or property. By doing this, you avoid the taxes (e.g. Long Term Capital Gains tax for Stocks of 15%). You still get the full value as part of you tithing, but save the 15%. And the church wins, because it can sell stock and not have to pay taxes since it is non-profit organization. Have you ever wondered why so many "rich" LDS members donate land to temples and church buildings. Besides their desire to see the church grow, they also avoid the taxes and can pay their tithing this way.
Hint: Use the tax laws in your favor, by itemizing your charitable contribution to reduce your tax liability. Additionally, instead of paying your tithing in cash, try donating appeciated art, stock, or property. By doing this, you avoid the taxes (e.g. Long Term Capital Gains tax for Stocks of 15%). You still get the full value as part of you tithing, but save the 15%. And the church wins, because it can sell stock and not have to pay taxes since it is non-profit organization. Have you ever wondered why so many "rich" LDS members donate land to temples and church buildings. Besides their desire to see the church grow, they also avoid the taxes and can pay their tithing this way.
Glad I'm Not a Sinner
I began to agree with this method more than the Captain Qualified the First, when I determined that both of these peeps are attempting to work the system. No worries, because Thomas B. Marsh’s wife, Ananias and Sapphira all figured that the local authorities couldn’t quite grasp their “special circumstances” and nothing bad happened to them as a result of their working the system!
My main problem with this is that it technically is correct, in that the funds have been committed, in the mind of the payer, to the church, but the church is not able to depend upon these funds for budgeting and expenditure purposes.
Let’s examine a case study: Mr. S. Young determines that he will only pay his tithing when his grossly inflated NFL contract of $50 M over 4 years has been completely paid, as opposed to paying tithing on each paycheck he receives. Maria Juana Lopez and her brother Maria Juan Lopez living in Machu Picchu Peru have been paying their tithing faithfully for over 15 years, but unfortunately their tithing over that time period has amounted to $74.33 (US), which hasn’t been enough for those bureaucrats in the Wasatch Front to commit to building a Temple in their region. Obviously Maria Juana and Maria Juan do not have the fundage to travel, and so are at the mercy of Bro. Young’s $5M (US) tithing payment to fund the Urubamba Valley Temple.
Mr Young can assume that as long as he doesn’t die before he gets that tithing check in, they he will be good to go, but I would argue that he had better hope that the Lopez family’s community isn’t decimated by the next animal-named flu, as San Pedro would be a little disappointed in Mr. Young if the Lopez’ weren’t able to complete their temple work in this lifetime.
En fin: paying tithing as it is received is probably the best approach to take.
One final point: I would contend that those who pay their annual tithing in one big lump sum advance, do the church auditors and budget committee a disservice, as the church inflows are inflated for the beginning of the year, causing a discrepancy for the annual expenditures of said funds. The individual thumps his chest and declares that he is justified by the law, while creating additional work for the church auditors (which in turn might cause the auditors to work overtime, increasing their expense and payment of valuable tithing funds as well). Of course, this hinges largely on how the church budget is determined, and if it is examined holistically on the annual, perhaps it’s all a wash anyway.
My main problem with this is that it technically is correct, in that the funds have been committed, in the mind of the payer, to the church, but the church is not able to depend upon these funds for budgeting and expenditure purposes.
Let’s examine a case study: Mr. S. Young determines that he will only pay his tithing when his grossly inflated NFL contract of $50 M over 4 years has been completely paid, as opposed to paying tithing on each paycheck he receives. Maria Juana Lopez and her brother Maria Juan Lopez living in Machu Picchu Peru have been paying their tithing faithfully for over 15 years, but unfortunately their tithing over that time period has amounted to $74.33 (US), which hasn’t been enough for those bureaucrats in the Wasatch Front to commit to building a Temple in their region. Obviously Maria Juana and Maria Juan do not have the fundage to travel, and so are at the mercy of Bro. Young’s $5M (US) tithing payment to fund the Urubamba Valley Temple.
Mr Young can assume that as long as he doesn’t die before he gets that tithing check in, they he will be good to go, but I would argue that he had better hope that the Lopez family’s community isn’t decimated by the next animal-named flu, as San Pedro would be a little disappointed in Mr. Young if the Lopez’ weren’t able to complete their temple work in this lifetime.
En fin: paying tithing as it is received is probably the best approach to take.
One final point: I would contend that those who pay their annual tithing in one big lump sum advance, do the church auditors and budget committee a disservice, as the church inflows are inflated for the beginning of the year, causing a discrepancy for the annual expenditures of said funds. The individual thumps his chest and declares that he is justified by the law, while creating additional work for the church auditors (which in turn might cause the auditors to work overtime, increasing their expense and payment of valuable tithing funds as well). Of course, this hinges largely on how the church budget is determined, and if it is examined holistically on the annual, perhaps it’s all a wash anyway.
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